I don't regret leaving the group. After all I've been through, I was glad that part was over. Although I had some mixed emotions in leaving the group because of the friendships I have built during my stay there, the bottom line is that it has to be psychologically healthy for you as well.
Since I decided on my own to leave, I don't think there are any mass manipulations.
All I can say is that the friendships you have with the members will be lost because they are instructed to no longer associate with you.
Prior to leaving the group, I've spoken to people that were leaders in the group that left before I did and they told me that they were tired of feeling guilty of not being able to convert new members. In addition, they also told me the same reason that I've stated about being in the group, like practicing this one-over-one authoritarian relationship, the compulsive giving of the contribution, and the compulsive devotion of your time to the group, no matter what the circumstances are.
I wasn't told nor advised to leave the group. I decided that I no longer benefit from staying with the group, financially, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. Thus, I have no regrets at all in my decision.
Wednesday, October 17, 2007
Another Reason For Joining The ICC
In my mindset, I went with the group because at that time, it was the best place to look for healthier relationships and friendships among those who already agree with the same views that I have. Outside of the ICC and the mindset I have, I never found that special person. Although I had a pretty good shot in a relationship with one of the sisters, it never happened within the ICC because the leadership got in the way and I eventually decided to leave, as I said in another post. As far as relationships are concerned, the bureaucratic legalistic system implemented by the ICC leadership wants to ensure that those who marry are plugged into the ICC system. Otherwise, the leadership wouldn't allow the marriage to happen.
What Made Me Leave the Group?
Here are the issues that made me decide to leave the group. It was a tough decision to make because I have made some friends during my stay in the ICC. The guy that baptized me has left the group about two months before and have talked to him about what's going on. After discussing the problems we've had with the group, I decided to do some investigating myself.
- The leader assigned over you only wants to hear what he says. They will used the scripture in Matthew 10:38-39, take it out of context, and use this to manipulate you into giving in because if you don't, you're not disciple material.
- Conditional relationships - one thing I remembered is that all these relationships are compromised the moment you sway away from what the group believes. I remembered one person decided not to be friends with me anymore because of their claim that I didn't have the heart of a disciple. I felt like I will be rejected by others for disagreeing with them for a good reason. This put a question mark on the integrity of your friendships with the members of the group.
- Deadly distractions - The moment someone leaves the group, you are instructed not to associate with them any longer or get kicked out of the group. When someone leaves the group, the leadership usually mark them not to be contacted. This happened to several leaders that left the ICC, they were marked not to be contacted because these marked people are deadly distractions. I remembered Rick and Sara Bauer, who were long time leaders of the group, Rick was disfellowshipped by the group for pointing out the flaws that the ICC practices. Although Sara stayed a little longer, she eventually left the group for good.
- I didn't agree that ICC members are the only ones saved. This is not for them to decide, as Matthew 7 states. Kip McKean claims that only ICC members who plug into his program are saved, a great deviation from Matthew 7.
- Matthew 28:18-20 is the biggest cover up that the ICC has pulled on current and prospective members. Verse 18 states that Jesus Christ is given all authority on heaven and on earth. Verses 19 and 20 are used to cover up the real intention of verse 18, but I don't disagree that verses 19 and 20 shouldn't be practiced. All I'm saying is that they used it to put a blur on verse 18. Matthew 28:18 makes shepherding unbiblical since that verse state that Jesus is the sole authority. Additionally, John 14:6 states that Jesus is the way to the Father and no one else comes through him. If that was the case, the ICC has pulled a slick sales job on you, a sale you'll probably regret. Furthermore, Matthew 28:18 and John 14:6 didn't say that Kip McKean, your local leaders, or your discipler has that authority over you.
- Special contribution is compulsive. This usually takes place around June of every year. They expect you to give up to 25 times (or even more) your tithe. If you're giving $100 for your contribution every week, you're expected to give around $2500 for the special contribution. I don't simply approve of a church forcing me to give a dime of my money as part of my contribution. I know that a lot of the masses in the group has given money and the ICC announced it with trumpets and such, which goes against Matthew 6.
My Day-to-Day Experiences In The Church as a Member
I was a member from November 1993 through August 1994.
The church is divided into (in this case, I was in Los Angeles) congregation, regional, and sectors. We usually have a congregational service in Los Angeles and it could be anywhere between the Universal Amphitheater, the L.A. Convention Center, and the Shrine Auditorium. I don't know where they hold their services now but I'm assuming that if they needed a large place to hold congregational services, these places would qualify.
The Sunday church services are pretty good. The sermon is usually led by a sector leader. Once in a while, they would have a regional service or a congregational service led by that particular leader but it depends on what the topic of the sermon is. Usually they get visitors from sister congregations or some of the ICC members bring in relatives. I don't see any playing of instruments when they sing. They usually clap their hands. Normally when they sing, they normally get hyped up to hoping to have a good day/week.
During the weekdays, most of the member work full or part-time jobs. Most of them were asked to work around ICC scheduled functions. I was among those who work full-time, but was also going to school part-time, on the night they have mid-week services. Since this was a commitment I made before I joined the group, the leadership never got in my case. Those who are still going to college work their school schedule around the ICC-scheduled events.
I don't know what others do on Mondays, but some of the members meet with their discipler, the person assigned by the leadership to shepherd them. In my case, I met with mine for a couple of hours to chat about life, how I'm doing, staying out of trouble, etcetera.
On Tuesday/Wednesday evening around 6:30 pm, they usually have a midweek service. During this time, they would ask you to give your contribution and usually by check. If they determined you didn't give enough, you will be advised and told to give the balance. I guess it sounded like you owe them money. In addition, they would ask you if you have brought in any members. The paying of your contribution (based on Malachi 3:8-15 in the Old testament) and the marketing of the church to prospective members (based on Matthew 28:18-20) is compulsive.
On Thursday evenings, the singles and marrieds are separated into bible talk groups. Occasionally, the regional leadership may have a singles devotional (was single at that time) on either Thursdays or Fridays and in that case, the bible talk meeting is canceled. Attendance in these functions are compulsive.
During the weekdays, most of the single brothers ask the sisters for a date on Saturday. Usually it's a double date and they can do whatever they chose to do (as long as it isn't unbiblical). On the dates I had, we made dinner for the sisters. On one date, I took one of them to a hockey game. It was fun. One of my long time friends told me whenever I go out on a date, just make sure that I had some fun and leave it at that. After the date, I give the sister a thank you card and she does the same for me.
It is also on Saturdays when weddings are performed and it's usually bestowed on the sector leader to marry the new couple. Because I was only in the group for a short time, I only went to one wedding. I was asked to go to a second wedding, the one whom my discipler at that time was the groom, but because of the disagreements that began to build in with this one-over-one relationship which I began to see the light, I refused to go.
Stay Tuned.
Next: What made me leave the group?
The church is divided into (in this case, I was in Los Angeles) congregation, regional, and sectors. We usually have a congregational service in Los Angeles and it could be anywhere between the Universal Amphitheater, the L.A. Convention Center, and the Shrine Auditorium. I don't know where they hold their services now but I'm assuming that if they needed a large place to hold congregational services, these places would qualify.
The Sunday church services are pretty good. The sermon is usually led by a sector leader. Once in a while, they would have a regional service or a congregational service led by that particular leader but it depends on what the topic of the sermon is. Usually they get visitors from sister congregations or some of the ICC members bring in relatives. I don't see any playing of instruments when they sing. They usually clap their hands. Normally when they sing, they normally get hyped up to hoping to have a good day/week.
During the weekdays, most of the member work full or part-time jobs. Most of them were asked to work around ICC scheduled functions. I was among those who work full-time, but was also going to school part-time, on the night they have mid-week services. Since this was a commitment I made before I joined the group, the leadership never got in my case. Those who are still going to college work their school schedule around the ICC-scheduled events.
I don't know what others do on Mondays, but some of the members meet with their discipler, the person assigned by the leadership to shepherd them. In my case, I met with mine for a couple of hours to chat about life, how I'm doing, staying out of trouble, etcetera.
On Tuesday/Wednesday evening around 6:30 pm, they usually have a midweek service. During this time, they would ask you to give your contribution and usually by check. If they determined you didn't give enough, you will be advised and told to give the balance. I guess it sounded like you owe them money. In addition, they would ask you if you have brought in any members. The paying of your contribution (based on Malachi 3:8-15 in the Old testament) and the marketing of the church to prospective members (based on Matthew 28:18-20) is compulsive.
On Thursday evenings, the singles and marrieds are separated into bible talk groups. Occasionally, the regional leadership may have a singles devotional (was single at that time) on either Thursdays or Fridays and in that case, the bible talk meeting is canceled. Attendance in these functions are compulsive.
During the weekdays, most of the single brothers ask the sisters for a date on Saturday. Usually it's a double date and they can do whatever they chose to do (as long as it isn't unbiblical). On the dates I had, we made dinner for the sisters. On one date, I took one of them to a hockey game. It was fun. One of my long time friends told me whenever I go out on a date, just make sure that I had some fun and leave it at that. After the date, I give the sister a thank you card and she does the same for me.
It is also on Saturdays when weddings are performed and it's usually bestowed on the sector leader to marry the new couple. Because I was only in the group for a short time, I only went to one wedding. I was asked to go to a second wedding, the one whom my discipler at that time was the groom, but because of the disagreements that began to build in with this one-over-one relationship which I began to see the light, I refused to go.
Stay Tuned.
Next: What made me leave the group?
Was mass manipulation used to convert you into this church? Why?
I experienced several of these mass manipulations which converted me to join:
- You get instant friends once you become a member. I mean, you're brother/sister to the whole flock. Most of these members on separate occassions persuaded me to study the Bible and get baptized (the ICC way). I met these people at the service and fellowshipped with them. I don't know if they pretend to be very close to you, but at that time, my mindset was to trust them and keep an open mind. I figured that their intentions were always good.When they bring in new members, they work as a team. That could be a team of two, three, or even ten.
- Before you joined, they're always interested in you, what you do, how's life, how did you find us, etc. This made me think that they care for me and it was in my interest that I join.
- I remembered before I joined, we get together on one weekend just to play some football. That was a pretty good selling point because we all got to participate and I love playing football (either tackle or tag). Sometimes we get together to watch a movie (usually PG-13 or below with the inappropriate content fast forwarded). The movie part scared me away, but the football part didn't. Because this is something that I had passion for, that was pretty much the bait they used on me. I can assure you that if they know that football is something I have passion for, they would get some of the members to play football and let me know that they will have a game going. If it was basketball, then it would be basketball. They look for what you like to do and then they use that as a sales pitch.
What Led Me To The Church
One of my friends, whom I've known for 18 years, invited me to a bible study. I thought just because there's a bible study going on, there won't be any funny business going on. At that time, I didn't know any better so I went along with it.
My friend was not a member of the group as of the time he invited me to the group, so I figured that I wouldn't be alone.
I can tell you that there's a lot of sales pitch going on between the members who were assigned to have us study the Bible and us. They asked us a few questions like what church do you go to, how's your relationship with God, compare the Catholic church to their church, and all the members bomb you with a lot of love. As far as the love is concerned, is it legit or is it just to keep you from walking away. At that time, my mindset is that if it has to do with God, I'm for it. I had an open mind at that time and I still have an open mind to this day. Other people just won't open their mind about things that can improve their standing in life, but with me, I investigate before I make my move. With this deal about God, my mindset at that time was I couldn't go wrong with me having a good relationship with God. Therefore I decided to go ahead and study the Bible with these people.
During our studies of the Bible, they basically teach us this thing called "First Principles". I don't know what that is and I don't know what impact it as in your relationship with God. It doesn't mean that I can't look it up. These are the principles that allow you to understand how you conduct yourself as a member of the group. They will also ask you what kind of wrongdoings you committed in the past. Keeping it a secret tells them that you're lying to God, thus they didn't have anything to lose if you kept your personal secrets from them.
Later, I learned that if you stray away from their teachings, they use that information against you.
Bible studies are usually between 2-3 hours. Usually they will try to make you come regardless of whether or not you have any commitments. Since I didn't have a car at that time, they usually pick me up. They usually have their fellowships during the day, but Bible studies are usually late in the evening. It goes from 9pm-midnight or 10pm-1am.
When the members who conducted the bible study determined that you're eligible to be baptized, they let the members within the sector know that there will be one. Unless they have commitments that are church related, they were all compelled to attend the baptisimal event and this happened to me. I figured it's a standard practice in the ICC. I had a bunch of people show up for my baptism and we did it in the beach. It was a very cold night and I was freezing. I remember this one girl tries to put her arm around me to keep me warm and the funny thing is, I just met her. When we got far enough into the seawater (while still freezing my butt off), about waist high, my friend immersed me and once that happened, I'm no longer freezing.
That's when life with the ICC started, the moment you got baptized.
Stay Tuned. Next is "Was mass manipulation used to convert you into this church? Why?
My friend was not a member of the group as of the time he invited me to the group, so I figured that I wouldn't be alone.
I can tell you that there's a lot of sales pitch going on between the members who were assigned to have us study the Bible and us. They asked us a few questions like what church do you go to, how's your relationship with God, compare the Catholic church to their church, and all the members bomb you with a lot of love. As far as the love is concerned, is it legit or is it just to keep you from walking away. At that time, my mindset is that if it has to do with God, I'm for it. I had an open mind at that time and I still have an open mind to this day. Other people just won't open their mind about things that can improve their standing in life, but with me, I investigate before I make my move. With this deal about God, my mindset at that time was I couldn't go wrong with me having a good relationship with God. Therefore I decided to go ahead and study the Bible with these people.
During our studies of the Bible, they basically teach us this thing called "First Principles". I don't know what that is and I don't know what impact it as in your relationship with God. It doesn't mean that I can't look it up. These are the principles that allow you to understand how you conduct yourself as a member of the group. They will also ask you what kind of wrongdoings you committed in the past. Keeping it a secret tells them that you're lying to God, thus they didn't have anything to lose if you kept your personal secrets from them.
Later, I learned that if you stray away from their teachings, they use that information against you.
Bible studies are usually between 2-3 hours. Usually they will try to make you come regardless of whether or not you have any commitments. Since I didn't have a car at that time, they usually pick me up. They usually have their fellowships during the day, but Bible studies are usually late in the evening. It goes from 9pm-midnight or 10pm-1am.
When the members who conducted the bible study determined that you're eligible to be baptized, they let the members within the sector know that there will be one. Unless they have commitments that are church related, they were all compelled to attend the baptisimal event and this happened to me. I figured it's a standard practice in the ICC. I had a bunch of people show up for my baptism and we did it in the beach. It was a very cold night and I was freezing. I remember this one girl tries to put her arm around me to keep me warm and the funny thing is, I just met her. When we got far enough into the seawater (while still freezing my butt off), about waist high, my friend immersed me and once that happened, I'm no longer freezing.
That's when life with the ICC started, the moment you got baptized.
Stay Tuned. Next is "Was mass manipulation used to convert you into this church? Why?
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